When releasing marketing videos, especially in B2B, we all need to have realistic expectations of our audience. They are generally not approaching your video with the same mindset that you are. Keeping these realistic expectations in the back of your mind as you create content will help you make videos that are more likely to be watched and thus more effective.

The 5 realistic expectations to have of your B2B audience

1. They don’t care about you or your competition as much as you do.
2. They don’t pick up on subtlety or nuance
3. They’re satisficing. They are not on a journey for ultimate truth or knowledge. 
4. In the absence of your marketing, they will default to safety.
5. The odds of them watching a whole video are low. 

To learn more about the five expectations, listen to the episode or read the transcript below.

Episode transcript

Guy Bauer: What are the odds that you are actually the best vendor of X ever in human history? It's unknowable. It's an unknowable thing. So all the clients you have are because you were at the right place at the right time. They saw your thing, they related to your message and maybe they compared you to two others. 

Hope Morley: Hello and welcome to Death to the Corporate Video, a podcast with tools and advice for how to make B2B video ads your prospects actually want to watch. I'm Hope Morley.

Guy Bauer: I'm Guy Bauer.

Hope Morley: On today's show we actually had a completely different idea and then came up with this yesterday. So, bear with us listeners, but we think that this is going to be a useful conversation.

Guy Bauer: We just thought of this.

Hope Morley: As we were prepping for this episode.

Guy Bauer: It was Hope's idea. 

Hope Morley: Yeah. 

Guy Bauer: I'm just kidding.

Hope Morley: We can take joint credit.

Guy Bauer: It reminds me of in Spinal Tap when they try to come back as an improvisational jazz band, freeform jazz, like you are witnessing the rebirth of Spinal Tap. This was his idea. You are witnessing the rebirth… I love that movie. 

Hope Morley: I haven't seen that movie in so long.

Guy Bauer: I love any humor that's depression based with like bad things happening. That's the funniest stuff.

Hope Morley: It's that cringe kind of comedy.

Guy Bauer: Mm-hmm. Anyways, so this was Hope's idea. I had a really good topic and she was like, Let's just improv it. I'm just kidding. I think I blew it up, right? Yeah. So what are we talking about today, Hope?

Hope Morley: Today we are talking to directly to in-house marketers, and what we wanna say today is we want you to have realistic expectations of your audience who are watching your video content. We have five expectations that you should have when you're thinking about the people who are going to be engaging with your content. Because I think it's important to remember that you and your audience are actually very, very different people. You have very different expectations when it comes to watching, especially video content, but any marketing content this can apply to. We talk about video cuz that's our specialty and also it does require a little bit more of a time commitment for most people. But that said, so we have five resets that we want you to make, or five ways to think about the expectations that you should have of your audience.

Guy Bauer: Great. Sounds good. Sounds like a way better topic than the one we were gonna talk about.

Hope Morley: Man, this seems like a really great idea. All right. Expectation number one, that you should have of your audience. Number one is they don't care. They don't care about you or your competition as much as you do. And Guy, can you break that down?

Guy Bauer: I'm gonna unpack that. Let's open up the suitcase of that idea. And first I'm gonna take out that top compartment where you shove all your shoes in. Okay. Yeah, they don't care about your company. They don't care about your values or your vision or anything like that.

It's not like these are apathetic people in general, just nihilists going around the internet. It's that. Like, can you blame them though? They have so many things they're worrying about and then like, they don't care about your company. Even like, I love Apple. I own Apple everything. But fundamentally, I don't really care about Apple.

Like I don't lose sleep over Apple's divestiture in different businesses and when they acquire something, I really don't care. I'm even a shareholder of Apple and I don't care. People don't care about what you have to say. They really don't. So you have to assume disinterest. They, you have to fight against that disinterest and bake it into your creative. Meaning, how will you make them interested? You have to assume disinterest. They don't care about your brand. 

They also don't care about your competition. Your competition sucks. We know it, right? Like your competitor stinks, and let's make a campaign talking about how bad our competitor is. Yes, to you, you know everything inside and out about your competition and why you are better than theirs. Why their mouse trap sucks. Your mouse trap is way better, but to the outside, they just don't care that much. They don't have feelings, positive or negative about your competitor. They don't. Your competitor keeps you up at night, so while making an ad, attacking a competitor is catharsis for you and feels good.

To the person watching it, it's probably just an ad for them. They may even go like, Oh, I didn't even know Insert competitor does this. Let me check them out. They must be good if people are attacking them. People know number two attacks number one. Number one never attacks number two. So when you take an attacking pose you automatically subjugate yourself and make yourself look like that way. The main thing is though your audience are not losing sleep over your competition like you are.

So that's not an area to mine. Now granted, there are exceptions and there's so many, you know, I never want to completely make a rule, you know, never attack the competition. No, there are no rules. But as a general, just note, your audience doesn't really care about your brand or your competition like you.

Hope Morley: Yeah, and I will say, of course there are people who are researching alternatives for a product or service because they are unhappy with their current provider. So there is a chance that they are with your competition and they're unhappy, so they're trying to switch to you. But if they're already unhappy, there are other pain points you can probably hit on than this sort of personal attack on the company that they're leaving. You know, the better way to attract that person is to talk about what they do care about, which is the way to fix all of this, which is how is their life going to be better? You know what? What are you offering them that is going to improve their direct day to day interaction with your product or service, with their job, with their life?

Guy Bauer: Trust me, I hate all the competition. We're better than all of them, right? Like, I don't, we don't hate them. In fact, whatever, but you know what I mean? Hate's a strong word. I tell my daughters, don't use the word hate, but we, we know we're better than the competition, but we even made an ad attacking the competition and it, it stunk, it did nothing.

Hope Morley: It wasn't even really attacking. It was just kind of making fun of them in a way that we thought was funny and it flopped.

Guy Bauer: Because nobody cares. Nobody cares as much as you do. The other thing I will say about this too is, stop the comparison of mouse traps. So we're on an engagement right now where our client claims, they're like, No, you, you don't understand. We have the best thing. Okay? And they're telling us that, and they believe it, and they should.

It's good to have pride in your product, right? They know all the reasons why their thing is better than everyone else's. But see, I'm an outsider, right? So when we do our competitive analysis, I went to their competitors and all their competitors are literally saying the same thing they are.

That's another thing is like, you know, you're better than the competition, but relative to an audience member, you're all saying the same thing, that you're the best. So again, like I don't care enough about your product to do a 20 hour research project. And this will come into another assumption you need to make or another expectation.

But yeah, they just don't care. They don't care.

Hope Morley: Mm.

Guy Bauer: You have to make them care.

Hope Morley: You have to make them care. You have to talk about what they do care about.

Guy Bauer: And they care about money.

Hope Morley: They care about themselves.

Guy Bauer: About themselves, job security, money, ROI, like, and it may not even be money, it may just be looking good, which is why people use IBM and you know, all the blue chip players may just be looking smart, keeping the job for another two years so they can retire with their full thing. You know what I mean?

Like, these are, these are the things that people care. They don't lose sleep over your competition. Okay, item number two, Assumption. What is it realistic expectation?

Hope Morley: Realistic expectation number two is your audience does not pick up on subtlety or nuance.

Guy Bauer: So this one's taken from George Tennenbaum. Thank you, George. Which he learned this from Errol Morris, who said subtlety is for amateurs. We've talked about it on this podcast, but your audience does not pick up on all the things that you're gonna pick up on. There's so many details that you're gonna wanna throw into your ad that will just go over the head of your audience. And you have to smack people in the head with stuff. They are not gonna pick up on all the little things that you think they're gonna pick up on. They're gonna pick up on the big stuff, for example. And brands, even big brands make this mistake all the time. You remember the Peloton Christmas ad where the guy buys his totally in shape wife a bike. We did an episode about that too.

Hope Morley: Yeah, well, cuz that, that was a couple years ago now.

Guy Bauer: They were so focused on all, like, what, what's the shot gonna be? Like? What's the, Hmm, we gotta get this shot. Right. You know, and like all the story beats and everything that they didn't even look at the major thing, which is what audiences look at.

Audiences look at the big stuff, not the small stuff. And if the ad is a hit, then they'll start thinking about the small stuff and they'll notice the nuance. People don't look at nuance first. They look at the big macro stuff first. Then they move on to nuance, focus on the big stuff and not the subtle and nuance stuff. It's great if you can bake it in, but that's all secondary. My old radio boss used to say, you can't have a cake that's all frosting. You have to have cake. The frosting goes on the outside, but the structure is the cake. If you just ate a bucket of frosting, that wouldn't be good, It would be gross.

Hope Morley: My stomach hurts just thinking about it.

Guy Bauer: Yeah. You know, like, worry about the cake, worry about the big stuff. Forget about the nuance and subtlety. That's the frosting.

Hope Morley: And to me, thinking back to that Peloton ad that kind of comes back to that, like they don't care about you point as well of, you know, Peloton defended that, of they were saying, Oh, we've gotten so many letters from people that were like, I wasn't someone who was a big exerciser, but then I got my Peloton and it turns out I love it and I'm super in shape now.

So that was their backstory. But nobody watching that ad knew that that was the backstory and that wasn't included in the ad. So there was this backstory that they’re making this assumption that people know, but instead, all they saw was a woman who didn't want to get exercise equipment who was gifted exercise equipment.

You know, that's not on its face. That's just like, really?

Guy Bauer: They suffer from what a lot of brands suffer which is the curse of knowledge is that you know so much stuff. Of course it makes sense to you, to you, but to the audience, they don't know any of this stuff. They're like Peloton, huh? You could buy it like?

Hope Morley: I mean, honest, you know, if they know you, they're like, Oh, okay. It's an exercise bike like, What? What do they know about what people are writing to you about?

Guy Bauer: Correct. Yeah. So they got in their own world and forgot to like take a look at how the outside perceives it. So yeah, that's assumption. Wait, reality, reality check. What are these? 

Hope Morley: Number two. 

Guy Bauer: Reality check. You just been reality checked!

Hope Morley: The morning radio always comes out on the podcast, doesn't it. It's like you put a microphone in front of you and you can't help it.

Guy Bauer: All right. What's reality check number three?

Hope Morley: Realistic expectation number three.

Guy Bauer: Reality check. You've been reality checked.

Hope Morley: It's a good thing. I edit this podcast and I don't have sound effects.

Guy Bauer: You’re just gonna take all this stuff out. Oh.

Hope Morley: Expectation number three. This comes from Rory Sutherland, I believe, but they are, your audience is satisficing is the term that he uses. So, Guy, can you explain what that is?

Guy Bauer: Yes, I'll explain it without an English accent.

Hope Morley: Please

Guy Bauer: Although I love Rory's English accent. Listen to his ebook. Anyway, so satisficing. Most people are satisficing and satisficing is the combination of two words, satisfying and suffice.

So, satisfying is satisfying and neat. Suffice is like, yeah, it's good enough, like, you know, kinda. Okay, that's good. So people are constantly satisficing. An example of this is, I'm hungry. It's 7:00 PM. The kids are crying. We're in Nashville, which is a culinary amazing place, but there's a Chipotle right out the car window.

Yes, I could go on a half hour research project, go to Eater, look at reviews, and find a great place in Nashville, but Chipotle will satisfy, you know what I mean? Like it's fine. Yeah, we missed out on a great Nashville barbecue meal or whatever, but I had to satisfy, I needed to make this decision. Most companies, most of your prospects are not on the absolute journey of 100% proof.

I mean, what are the odds that you are actually the best vendor of X ever in human history? The chances are low or unknowable, actually. It's unknowable. It's an unknowable thing. So all the clients you have are because they satisficed. You were at the right place at the right time. They saw your thing, they related to your message, and maybe they compared you to two others.

They definitely didn't compare you to 60 others or 100 others. They satisficed, They satisficed in you gave them enough information, a safe enough decision. They sacrificed few, absolute truth, but they're satisficing. So your audience are constantly satisficing, meaning. I think it's a silly exercise to try to appeal to them as to why your product is the best.

A, because everyone else is saying that B is, they're not gonna, They can't possibly investigate enough to determine if that's true or not. So all you have to do is get awareness. Focus on getting brand awareness, focusing on getting them to your website. When they will satisfice, or at least you'll be in the consideration set for a satisficing.

They're not gonna read an 80 page white paper and then do an independent investigation, higher a private eye to track 80 people, 80 vendors, they're just not gonna do that. They're not gonna do that. So get that awareness, get in front of them, get your logo in. Be part of the consideration set and you'll see you'll win a lot more business because people are satisficing into working with you.

You don't have to win on an empirical total rational thing that is not the threshold for success. If that was the case, Apple would be out of business. Their products are not the best

Hope Morley: Thank you for finally saying that as my Android phone is next to me.

Guy Bauer: I mean, Android is probably better. I mean, I can build a PC that is way more powerful than the best Apple thing for like a quarter of the price. Why don't I? Because I satisfice into Apple cuz I'm too lazy to build a pc, you know what I mean? Like they're good enough, they're great. Like it's satisfying.

Hope Morley: Yeah. And most people when they're, you know, if, if someone is assigned at their company to find a new vendor for something or add a new solution to their tech stack at the end of the day to get to the consideration phase, they're probably considering like three or four companies. They are not going through G2 and scheduling a call with all 30 different options for whatever thing there is there, you know, and one of those ones down in the middle somewhere maybe actually has the best product, but they're not gonna get there.

You know, people are comparing three or four. They'll talk to a couple people and they're choosing from that because that's kind of all they have time for.

Guy Bauer: Having the best product is almost irrelevant actually, to me, I think it's having the best ecosystem, like the best brand, honestly, how I make decisions. I mean, I know this is gonna sound real shallow, but if it's like, if we're looking at two different project management softwares or whatever I judge based on the website.

Like is it clean? I totally judge a book by its cover. Like, like is it clean? Is it nice? Do they have good videos, right then I can trust if they have good taste here, blah, blah, blah. And I don't think people consciously are aware that they're doing that, but they are. They are totally doing that. They're looking at the brand and how it makes them feel, and then finding all the white paper they can copy and paste to put it in their decks to get approval and stuff like that.

They're totally satisficing, so get in front of them. Forget about proving you're the best. It's almost irrelevant.

Hope Morley: Mm-hmm. 

Realistic expectation number four, expectation number four is in the absence of your marketing, your audience is going to default to safety and safe decisions. So what that means is, and this is similar to satisficing, but unless you give them a reason to pay any attention to your brand or your product or service, they are going to make a default safe decision, and that's typically going to be choosing the leader in the space.

It's going to be picking Salesforce, it's gonna be picking Zoom, it's gonna be picking AWS for your cloud storage, whatever the top thing is, is a safe. No one's gonna lose their job. You're gonna get it through procurement easily because they can look at it and be like, Oh yeah, obviously we're gonna go with this.

It's the top leader in our space. There's no convincing to do. It's easy. They can glide through the decision, so you need to convince them to make a choice that's potentially not the default safe choice. And you use your marketing to do it.

Guy Bauer: Yeah. And, and what I think we're trying to get at here is don't overthink things. They always say, Why is there so much bad marketing? Like, why are there mattress ads that are like so lame? Why are there so many lame ads? Like Bounty ads haven't changed in years since I was a kid. They're the same.

Hope Morley: It's still, Oh no, somebody spilled something quick. Grab a paper towel. Like what else are they gonna do?

Guy Bauer: Yeah. And, and what this is at is, what this is trying to get you at is don't over bake, Don't overthink. It's more important that you advertise. That's why there's so much bad advertising, cuz even bad advertising works over not advertising. So the idea is, this is like, if you don't advertise the market share will go to the top.

So it's more important that you advertise rather than not advertise. And a lot of brands, what they do is they hesitate and they try to come up with the perfect ad rather than just come up with an ad. Like without your ad, they won't know that you exist. So even if your ad, for example, like that Oatley ad with the guy in the field.

Hope Morley: Oh, the Super Bowl ad where he was singing?

Guy Bauer: Yeah, great. It's not good. Like in the end, we're all dust, right? In the end, in the universe we are nothing where, but a spec on nothing. Like we are nothing.

So in the end, and if as aliens judge ad creative, an alien would just look at Oatley and then look at Imported from Detroit, arguably the best commercial of all time. And the alien would just bucket that as like, Humans are trying to sell other humans something. It's still an ad. Oatley is still better than not doing that ad.

And that ad was like homemade. He was like, Can you tell? But I mean, like, you know, it's awful, but hey, Oatley's huge now. And so it's more important that they advertise rather than not advertise. So don't overthink. It's more important to capture that audience attention so they don't go default to the safe choice.

Hope Morley: And if you are currently the leader in your category and are considered the safe choice, guess what? You still have to keep marketing and advertising because you need to stay top of mind. You need to fight to keep that default position.

Guy Bauer: That's right. Cuz there's a bunch of brands like

Hope Morley: There's a bunch of people coming after you. 

Guy Bauer: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Cuz you know, Oatley is stealing market share from milk.

Hope Morley: Mm-hmm.

Guy Bauer: I never heard of oat milk before. 

Hope Morley: That's cuz I need to talk to you more about dairy alternatives apparently.

Guy Bauer: Is oat milk the best? Is it, Does it taste the most like milk?

Hope Morley: It depends what you are using it for. It does not taste the most like milk, but then again, I haven't had milk since 2009, so what do I know what milk tastes like? But it's the creamiest and it works very well for a lot of different uses.

Oh, Oatley makes good ice cream.

Guy Bauer: Oh yeah.

Hope Morley: Mm-hmm.

Guy Bauer: But yeah, that guy just was like, It's Oatley. It tastes like milk. No, it's terrible. It's annoying, but I remembered it and I remember Oatley. So when it's a win, the worst ad is no ad.

Hope Morley: Mm-hmm.

Guy Bauer: Honestly, and like our most, well, this is kind of changing though, with our campaign from last year, but up until last year or up until this year, our most successful ad was like 15 seconds was Lureena. You know, why do all B2B videos, blah, blah blah, Use Umault. It's like the simplest ad but says what we do.

So even if you make a 15 second ad, it's like, Hi, we are company X and we do this. Please use us. That's still infinitely better than no ad at all.

Hope Morley: Mm-hmm.

Guy Bauer: So that was the reality smack. 

Hope Morley: Expectation check. All right. Realistic expectation number five. And this one is more specific to video than the other ones, which are more general marketing, but realistic expectation number five.

Guy Bauer: Number five.

Hope Morley: The odds of your audience watching your entire video is very low. On average, they're probably watching a third of it, even if it's only 15 seconds long, they're probably not watching the whole thing.

Guy Bauer: That's right. So this goes back to the thing of like assume disinterest, they're not going to watch the full thing. For example, our ads get like very high completion rates cuz we're so great.

Hope Morley: We’re like really good at our jobs.

Guy Bauer: Yeah. I'm just in our LinkedIn thing right now in our ad campaign manager. 

Okay, so the highest completion rate is that spot I just talked about with Lureena in the conference room. It has a 35.19% completion rate, so that means out of the people, out of the people that watched it in a given period, 35% of them completed it. And that's like super, super high. The LinkedIn average completion rate is 13%. That's the average. So on average, your ads out of all the people that watch them, on average 13% will actually watch the full thing. Ours get, you know, above 20, and this one is above 30. But, and, and that's great, right?

Like we're patting on ourselves on the back, but in the end still, that's pretty low. 35%, only 35% watched it all the way through, which means most of those people didn't watch it all the way through. Maybe they cut out at the 70% mark, maybe they cut out the 50 or the 25%. The idea is that, again, assume disinterest, assume they're not going to watch enough to get that brand impression.

Assume they're not gonna care enough to stick through to where you reveal your joke or whatever. Your organization will have an urge to jam pack this full of detail, they see that 60 second bucket as a thing of let's jam as much stuff into that 60 seconds as possible.

The problem with that is that, A, they're not gonna watch the full thing, and B, the more info you jam in there, the more you actually lower the chances of people completing it because it's so boring. So bake this into your creative. You have to assume that people aren't gonna watch the full thing. And so what are things we can do to prevent people from dropping off? Cliff hangers jokes, you know, that's where the creative comes in.

So don't make the mistake of thinking that everyone is gonna watch all of your ad. It's not gonna happen.

Hope Morley: And that's okay too. And I think about even when I've been in a consideration phase of considering a new service or a new product. Sometimes I'll get to a product video and I wanna see a demo of something and I pull up a product video. But you end up watching a little bit and then you kind of click through cuz you wanna just see the features and how it works, but you're not actually watching the whole thing.

And that doesn't mean I wasn't giving it fair consideration. I'm just a busy person. I don't wanna sit and watch a three minute video. But I still got the impression that I wanted to get. Like I'm glad that they had that video available to me, so I didn't give it a full watch, but that doesn't mean I didn't even necessarily buy that product afterwards.

It showed me what I wanted to show, what I wanted to see, and then I could go and, you know, contact a sales person to get a full demo or click buy if that's what I wanted. So you want to give people the opportunity to engage with or not engage with your content as much as they want to. And the great thing about video is that you can click through it and you can skip ahead and you can stop and go.

And if you've gotten what you need out of it, you can leave. And that's okay.

Guy Bauer: Yeah, I agree with you.

Hope Morley: It's kind of like skimming on a website. I wouldn't expect anyone to sit and read every single word on our website. In fact, that would be kind of ridiculous, for anyone to sit and read all the text on anyone's website. But you give them enough that they skim the headings, they read the first sentence, they get the gist, they look at the pictures.

You know, it's all just giving people an idea of what you represent. And the same goes for your video content. People are just trying to get an idea for what you represent. And maybe they watch the whole thing, maybe they don't. But you just need to put your best foot forward throughout the entire piece and like, what are you giving this person right now?

Guy Bauer: Yeah, like you said, I mean, people are trying to get an idea of what you represent so that they can satisfice off that, so that they can make that satisfying decision. But yeah, it all, they all commingle, all these reality smack downs eventually culminate in a reality slap. 

Hope Morley: Do they now?

Guy Bauer: So you better expect that slap.

Hope Morley: Okay, I'll run through them. The five realistic expectations of your audience. One, your audience doesn't care about you or your competition as much as you do. Two. Your audience doesn't pick up on subtlety or nuance. Three, they're satisficing. Four.

In the absence of your marketing, they will default to safety, and five, the odds of them watching your whole video are low. So taking all of this, what does this mean for our marketing efforts? How does this translate to actually what we're putting out there?

Guy Bauer: So what I, what I want you to do is take these expectations and with these expectations in mind, you know, think about your audience reacting to your ads through these, you know, five lenses. 

Hope Morley: Yeah. It's a way that you can evaluate the marketing and the creative that you're putting out there. So think about, is this too subtle for people outside our industry to pick up on? Is this potentially talking way too much about our competition in a way that our audience doesn't care about?

Does this video require somebody to watch 65 seconds before they get to any sort of satisfying conclusion or brand hit. So if you can kind of run through those things and look at what you're putting out there, it's a way that you can think about how you can potentially make things more effective or update and re-release what you already have.

And some of these things you can kind of evaluate your current marketing by looking at, you know, YouTube retention rates. You see where people are dropping off from your content. And a dropoff is expected, but if on average, if you're below these benchmarks and these averages, then there's a chance that you can reevaluate and potentially re-edit and rerelease.

See what you can do to, to fight these, these audience biases, I guess.

Guy Bauer: Yeah, it's like, it's just the environment you're entering and hopefully this would help you do is if your agency or your internal team are coming up with concepts, this could help you kind of filter through because there are so many great concepts every day. We have great concepts that don't take into account the audience.

A lot of times we generate concepts for us. Problem is, this is a money making venture thing. We need to get customers. We're not just making art. So while it works in art, doing something for yourself, it doesn't work when you're trying to get customers. And so what this is helping you do is, you know, hopefully giving you another set of tools to get more customers. But here's the biggest takeaway I think, is all of these things were learned by us just making mistakes with our own marketing and learning stuff and getting insights out of like us marketing ourselves, right? Like the best thing for you to do is just to market and you'll develop different insights that we can't even offer you.

And the other thing too is don't get trapped up in all these, like, well, Guy said, Guy and Hope said that, blah, blah, blah, blah, that no one cares about the competition. Don't take any of these things as rules. You could, you know, you could do whatever you want. These are basically more, more times than not what we've seen.

You know what I mean? But that being said, there are no rules. Go for it.

Hope Morley: This is all a baseline. It's the same as any other sort of benchmarks that you're reading about. You know, if you read that, the LinkedIn benchmark for a view through rate. What did you say? It was like 15%. But then we know that our best performing ads are 35%. So we don't evaluate our own performance based on the LinkedIn benchmark because we know we can do better than that.

So we evaluate our performance based on historical performance of our own stuff, and that's where our new benchmark is. So it's the same with any of these expectations. You get out there, do some campaigns, find out what your benchmark for your audience is, find out what they care about, find out how much time they're spending.

Look at your retention rates on your videos. Find out what decisions they're making when they don't choose you, and then you can tailor your marketing around that.

Guy Bauer: Yep. It's more important that you do market than not. Hope, this has been a great episode. Probably the best one yet.

Hope Morley: Oh yeah?

Guy Bauer: Where can people learn about us?

Hope Morley: People can find us across all the social media channels at Umault. That's U M A U L T. You can also visit our website at umault.com. And we talk about a lot of this stuff on our LinkedIn page. That's probably the best place to find us. Thanks for listening!

Guy Bauer: You're welcome.